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The Official Hacks Podcast | Ep. 5 Retired with Margaret Cho | HBO Max

♪ (SOUNDWAVE) ♪ MARGARET CHO: Hello There! Welcome to the authorities
Hacks Podcast
from HBO Max
and also Pineapple Street Studios. I'' m Margaret Cho.
This period, I made a quick cameo as myself in episode 4, as I was leaving the lesbian cruise ship as Deborah was arriving. DEBORAH VANCE: Oh my God! Margaret Cho! (LAUGHS) Excellent to see you. You look terrific. MARGARET: You look excellent. DEBORAH: Many thanks. So, exactly how were they? MARGARET:
Uh, audiences, B minus, yet the cunnilingus, A plus!
DEBORAH: Huh. MARGARET: And also today, I'' m your official visitor host of the pod.Joining me are the

fantastic Hacks developers, Jen Statsky, Paul W. Downs, and Lucia Aniello. On each episode of this podcast, a various guest host talks with you all about the production of an episode of Hacks. Okay, allow ' s get right into the 5th episode of period 2. It ' s called “Retired.” It was composed by Andrew Regulation and routed by Paul “.” W. Downs. DEBORAH: There was this stand-up display in Reno, and the finalists all reached go to the nationals. And if you won, You were booked on all the college reveals. And also it was a really significant bargain.
And also I understood that there was only room for one woman, if that, so … I erased Susan ' s name off the white boards so she wouldn ' t know she ' d made it into the last round . MARGARET: Whoa! DEBORAH: Yeah, I'understand.
I understand.
And also right after that,
she retired. Currently she works for commission in the shoe division! MARGARET: Paul, speak to us concerning directing this episode. PAUL W. DOWNS: There ' s a whole lot of personality growth in the episode.A great deal of our characters collaborated and also count on
each other more than they have in the past.

I was fortunate adequate to work with Harriet Sansom Harris in this episode, who plays Susan, the stand-up comic from Deborah ' s past, who she was really affordable with. As well as it was truly such an advantage and an enjoyment to collaborate with her'She is so brilliant.
You might have seen her.
As well as she really … She moved all of us extremely much. PAUL: Yeah. MARGARET: Oh!
Okay. I love the episodes. I– I was so relocated among it
, particularly episode five, I think. It simply was like I ' ve never ever seen that particular aspect, movie industry and also women in comedy', and also the individuals that you type of leave behind in funny. Comedy ' s. an extremely specific profession in that individuals put on ' t. ever leave it.It ' s not like acting where. often you type of age-out or, you recognize, you sort of, like,.

leave the career … In comedy
, normally,. individuals that you start with, you ' ll see. for the rest of your life.
Then there ' s people.
But, in reality,. there ' s numerous reasons people select. different courses in life,'however– Specifically women in comedy.
It ' s like when somebody ' s amusing, you believe, “They ' re gon na be. in it permanently–” And also the funniest comics. of all that I ' ve witnessed in my life didn ' t continue on.PAUL: That is so depressing.
– MARGARET: Yeah, it ' s so strange.- JEN:'Or is it?- MARGARET: Is it unfortunate? Or is it'–.
– PAUL: Yeah, maybe it ' s not.
Usually, the funniest of the craziest comics. They didn'' t like it.
– MARGARET:. They didn ' t like the way of living. They didn ' t like the sacrifices.
to take a ferryboat, as well as, um …
-( GIGGLING) JEN: It sounds like.
she'' s doing excellent if she ' s living. on an island. That appears outstanding. MARGARET': She ' s living. on an island.'There ' s, like– I don ' t recognize if it ' s Canada. I put on ' t understand if it ' s. the United States. I don ' t understand. It ' s the Pacific Northwest.
I totally venerated her, um …
Lots great deals people.( GUESTS AGREE) LUCIA ANIELLO:.
It'' s like you said– Like, the sacrifices you have.
to make as well as how difficult it is. Like, it'' s almost an indication.
of peace of mind to stop … (CHUCKLES) -… I think. Like, there'' s. -MARGARET: Yeah!- LUCIA: You know?- MARGARET: Yeah.
– LUCIA: Did you'ever before–.
– PAUL: Or you ' re having. healthy limits. Yeah.
LUCIA: Have you had. conversations with individuals you understand that have actually determined.
to stop where they sort of say.
why they have? Or they simply sort of, like,.
MARGARET: They just
fall drop. PAUL: Mm-hmm. It is so fascinating that– as well as we deal with it.
in the episode, that comedy is–.
it is a condition, you understand, when you can'' t do anything else.
And also I really felt by doing this. when I was initially in New york city, initial doing comedy.I did stand-up and also I discovered it.
actually lonesome and also actually tough. And I counted on doing stuff.
at the UCB, which is where I met Lucia.
and also where I met Jen. And also doing illustration as well as improv was.
a little much less lonesome. That was the point, I, basically,.
could have seen myself believing, “” You understand what,.
funny isn'' t the path.” But since I have the illness,.
since my mind is infected, as well as I just desire.
to make individuals laugh, as well as I am addicted to that,.
I still needed to do comedy, however it did force me.
on a slightly different path.And in some cases

I ask yourself.
what the path would certainly have been if I'' d simply stuck. to doing stand-up, and also did solo executing more so. than working together with people, -what that would have been.
like for me.
– MARGARET: Mm-hmm. PAUL: I make the joke.
that I could be dead in a ditch or I might have.
an Academy Honor. -We don'' t recognize.
We simply don ' t understand. -('GIGGLING) MARGARET:. You understand, it ' s type of like,.
I think that– Since after that it leads you. You understand, when you ' re. And then there ' s so a lot.
from her point of view, so she can'' t perhaps see.
from outside her viewpoint– JEN: Well, I think that'' s. a really exact representation of, like, the funnyman.
PAUL:. And for someone like her, you know, in our, like,.
in her hubby, as well as they had.

this two-person act.And then when he betrayed her, that'' s among the factors. she turned so tough to being a self-reliant performer.
Because you don'' t have. You'' re up there all alone.
Which method. no one can betray you.
As well as she speaks about that. in episode 109, last season.
You recognize–. Which is why it ' s so frightening for her to have.
this, like, kindred spirit, this collaborator,.
is actually scary for her.Even though it

is also.
Life-bringing since there is.
something different about.
having other individuals. And you are.
a little less self-involved, and also you are a bit a lot more,.
you understand … There'' s just– The fire of working together.
with a person else is.
MARGARET: It is. You know, it seems like.
when she allows her guard down, she obtains let down,.
and afterwards she obtains truly angry, but she'' s additionally not willing.
to allow it go. Like, she'' s not cutting Ava off for any one of these type of.
dishonesties, however she is keeping her.
at arm'' s length.
– PAUL: Yes.
– LUCIA: As well as the only reason. she ' s actually not allowing her go is due to the fact that she does understand.

that Ava
does enhance the work.And again, that is. the most
important point. Therefore,. if Ava wasn ' t aiding her, she would certainly be gone also if.
she does like her firm. And also enriching her life is.
what is enriching the job. Those two things are–.
work together. MARGARET: Yeah. And I assume.
that they both have issues.
with affection. And that'' s sort of, like,. what attaches them, is their failure to link.
with other individuals, which I assume is really funny.It ' s

like they'' re in fact,. like, kindred spirits.
And also they–. I think they take turns sort of. mothering each other.'Whether it ' s like ingesting.
a large tablet. (LAUGHES) -I'' m like,. “What is that, fish oil?””.
-( LAUGHTER) MARGARET: Appears like fish oil. Appears like vitamin D. Like, I'' m like,.” “Oh, this huge tablet.
” I might see– It ' s like–

. That ' s psyllium husk.( GIGGLING )- MARGARET: Yet it ' s a really–.- JEN: It ' s all of it. It'' s a very– To me,.
it ' s a really familiar point.
It ' s like, here,. take this equine pill. or discover exactly how to swim. At the'very same time,. attempt this joke. Attempt something new.
Don ' t do that. Don ' t say that you ' re.
from Pilgrim stock. (LAUGHS)- PAUL: Right, right, right. -MARGARET: It '
s like,. try to discover something brand-new. – PAUL: Yeah.
– MARGARET: So, they do actually.
It ' s like. That ' s
. Her signature aroma.
– DAMIEN: Hi. We have an emergency situation. They ' re retiring Black Pashmina.
-( AVA CHOKING ).- DEBORAH: What ?! -DAMIEN: Yeah.
It ' s being
ceased.-( AVA GASPING)- DEBORAH: No! -AVA: Can I have some water?- DAMIEN: I ' m so sorry. -AVA: What ' s that?( GRUNTS) DEBORAH : It ' s the scent.

I have actually used for 25 years! DAMIEN: I– I ' ve located a Lord as well as Taylor. 200 miles from below, and they have it in stock. MARCUS: Okay.All right. If we miss the meet as well as greet.'as well as reroute, we can still make it.
to Springfield promptly. DEBORAH: Actually? Oh my God'! I
' m so glad you ' re below.( LAUGHES)
MARCUS: Oh, there ' s. a totally free gift with acquisition,
lip lining and a travel size.
of the fragrance. DEBORAH: Oh,'no.
They ' re gon na. Phil! And also keep in mind,.
yellow means hit … the … gas!
Which, I have a container–.
I couldn'' t locate it, however I have a bottle. of Joan Rivers ' trademark fragrance that she gifted me, which I ought to have–. I do gather fragrances. I have a fragrance fridge. as well as a skincare fridge.
I don'' t know why. It ' s gone a little off,. PAUL: So you ' re.
a fragrance genius. -You like scents.
– MARGARET: I do like it. MARGARET: I have one that ' s– It
' s not been discontinuedStopped. It'' s not made anymore due to the fact that it ' s simply so scary.
It ' s called. Secretions Magnifiques, and also it ' s by this. It ' s Etat Libre d ' Orange.
MARGARET: Secretions Magnifiques. MARGARET: And also it'' s terrible.
and also you go to these boutiques.
and you shop it and also you try to spray it.
on a blotter, they'' ll really.
make you go outside, walk around the block,.
and after that spray the blotter, and afterwards return. And also they'' ll make
you. leave the blotter outside because it'' s such. an offending aroma.
As well as it stinks,. I do'like it.
PAUL: You ' re the ideal individual. for this particular episode. I didn ' t understand that you were.
such an enthusiast. LUCIA: Now Margaret,.
I have a fast question for you. You stated that.
you were talented a container from the late,.
wonderful Joan Rivers. I would like to dig a little bit.
We didn'' t have.- MARGARET: Thank you.
to associate as well as have dinner with. As well as she constantly paid,.
which I definitely valued. She and also I had dinner.
in the '' 90s, as well as she'' d secretly come– she ' d been available in camouflage. to a show of mine, as well as she was extremely excited.
to satisfy me. I won an honor for the program and.
she intended to offer it to me. And also we had supper that evening, and she had actually simply introduced.
her jewelry line on QVC, and also she claimed she was gon na.
send me all of it '' reason it was all reproductions.
of her very own fashion jewelry that she had actually made for QVC. And also she was gon na send me.
the entire line, as well as I stated.
I didn'' t wear jewelry.And she was so

her face went down. And also just …
– PAUL: No, seriously? MARGARET: Yeah, she was like,.
And also then, she strolled out. And also then, ultimately,.
As well as so, she'' s like, “Okay, I think I can recognize. She gave me a great deal.
of her fragrance, her … she always had.
odd accessory things that would certainly come from QVC, so it would simply be.
these scarves with great deals of sequins on them, and also things that were.
really bejeweled. She was extremely gift-y.
because method. LUCIA: Margaret,.
I have an inquiry for you.Have you had minutes. MARGARET: Um,. I think one point I actually.
“I ' ve never been home. I haven ' t been home.
for 35 years.” Things about stand-up funny.
is that you can ' t ever before take an'invite. to go on vacation anywhere. You can ' t ever claim, “Oh, I '
ll make a supper strategy.
with you.” Due to the fact that supper prepare for. the 'rest of your life are out ' reason you ' re gon na have.
And also if we have to back out,.
it ' s alright. But also for the remainder of our lives,. our lives are funny, so you can ' t ever before do that.
After that, the pandemic.
made us all type of quit. and stay at home, “and also I resembled, “Wow,.” I truly like … my residence life.
” Which I have actually thought of. maybe investing more time in cultivating that.But other

than that, I wear'' t think I can ever stop.
doing stand-up funny because I wear'' t recognize.
that I would be. I bear in mind one.
really renowned comedian, he informed me that he didn'' t have. any days on the books.
Does that suggest you'' re. Like, it'' s strange! It'' s like– It ' s weird.
that you would certainly ever before desire to take any type of type of trip.
or … Also when I got wed.
or if I was in a connection, often they would.
featured me, which is always kind of– Nobody desires to do that either. PAUL: Well, it relies on where,.
I guess.MARGARET: It depends

on where,. but after that it ' s kind of
like … It ' s like,. when'you'' re likewise doing a job, you ' re not thinking of.
the being with somebody else. You'' re thinking of”,. “Oh, what am I mosting likely to do. when I'' m carrying out?”” You'' re constantly thinking.
concerning your stand-up funny and what you'' re gon na
do. for your gig and jokes and stuff. I discover that that'' s far better off
–.'you ' re far better off solitary since everyone'' s. just gon na bother you that'' s in your room.- PAUL: You ever before do a state fair?
– MARGARET: Yes! When I would do a state fair, I often would certainly do them.
with Cyndi Lauper, unusually sufficient. -PAUL: That'' s
fun.- MARGARET:'She ' s wonderful. And she and I visited with each other.
for many years. As well as she would certainly commonly do.
these state fairs, and I did a state fair.
with her and the Indigo Girls.
as well as Joan Jett.-PAUL: Wow!

– LUCIA: Fantastic. PAUL: Okay, that'' s an enjoyable program.
How are the groups. at a state fair? MARGARET: They ' re excellent,. however it ' s additionally, for those shows, they'' re so huge that people. were coming in simply for that. It wasn'' t like a state fair. where people were there. for the fair, and after that right here ' s. the entertainment. It was much more like.
individuals were going as a location.
so they can see Cyndi as well as see all these wonderful bands. I never ever did a state fair.
equally as comic with other comics. Oh, maybe– No, I did one.
once perhaps in the '' 80s. There was a women comic.
who was very … I later figured out, about 25 years later on.
or something, that she was.
very envious of me as well as told individuals that I made love.
with 5 of the male comedians during the week.
that we were there. PAUL: Oh, my God. MARGARET: She informed me.
that she was actually sorry, as well as I'' m like, “I wouldn'' t have.” I was like, “” Maybe three,.
yet not 5.”” I imply, that'' s many. and also they ' re all so silly. Like, I would certainly never ever. I indicate,.
I would certainly incline being slutty, yet not male comics. Male comics are just … not the individuals you wan na be.
fuckin' ' at all times. (GIGGLING) LUCIA: We'' re you really compet–. Are you extremely affordable, or do you locate that.
that'' s something that ' s type of dropped away.
as your profession has proceeded? MARGARET:.
I'' m not actually affordable, only since I ' m truly. ' Cause I was like 15, as well as everyone''
s in. And also so, just by my identification,.
and after that later queer, so it was sort of like.
there was so lots of points.
setting me apart. Although, the majority of the females.
in funny are queer, as well. To ensure that lends itself.
to a whole lot of area. And also there'' s something.
that'' s non-competitive concerning the queers in funny.
because we require each various other. So we'' re not quite.
as competitive.The competitors is. mainly with on your own and also:.
Just how could I be better? Or if somebody creates. a terrific joke, you ' re like, “Oh, why
didn ' t I–. Why couldn ' t I do
that? Why didn ' t I think about that'?” That ' s where”. the'competition is primarily, is simply kind of that.
creative sensibility of like, “” Oh, I wish I might be.
like that individual.”” LUCIA: And do you feel like.
since– And not that I would certainly claim that.
always comedy has actually developed.
to this place, but I presume it'' s. a higher fad of individuals doing much more.
confessional, individual stuff.I mean, certainly there ' s constantly.
been narration in stand-up, yet the example that.
Deborah is developing today, exactly how do you feel about.
type of seeing that trend in the last number of years,.
specifically? MARGARET: Well, I like it because that'' s the program. that I desire to see from Deborah. I intend to see her inform her story.
since it'' s so rich.
And she comes from. this era of showbusiness where you couldn'' t. inform your tale, that was practically.
the type of … doing the same product.
over as well as over since it got this excellent,.
huge response, yet it was simply–.
you put on'' t really show any of that you really are.
beneath it. And what I want, as a customer,.
is I desire to see the story or things that motivated her.
underneath every one of that.I wish to see everything.
in the Xmas room.

Funny ' s. an extremely certain occupation in that people don ' t. ever before leave it.It ' s not like acting where. It ' s like when somebody ' s amusing, you believe, “They ' re gon na be. There ' s, like– I put on ' t know if it ' s Canada. I put on ' t understand if it ' s. the United States. It'' s such as– It ' s unusual.I'' m certain it ' s racist.
'( GIGGLING) That was so funny,
' reason when– I was searching in that room,
As well as I feel like, you ' re. You understand? You understand what I'' m speaking regarding.
As well as that'' s what I assumed. I would certainly be as a
comedianComic I believed I would have.
– PAUL: Oh, wow. Well, you have a wonderful design.
MARGARET: Thanks. JEN: That seemed extremely. Mickey Mouse. MARGARET: It ' s sort of Mickey, it ' s sort of extremely Mickey Computer mouse. It is. It ' s offering … PAUL: We
must aim out. to you, Margaret, that this episode, “” Retired,”” is motivated, partly, by.
a story that was informed to us by Carol Leifer.Which was that

when her.
fragrance was retired, she went to every electrical outlet mall and also every regional shopping center.
she could to equip up. And she did what Deborah does, which is, she calculated.
the length of time she was gon na live. -MARGARET: Oh, wow. (LAUGHS).
– PAUL: And also she was like, “” Okay, I need to get.
this lots of bottles.”” And we believed that is so funny,.
therefore Deborah Vance.So she in fact offered us. that tale, which was, partly,.
MARGARET: Well, that'' s. so genius. That ' s really fitting. Any behind the scenes minutes.
you all want to speak about? LUCIA: I have one sort of.
Which, in fact, I don'' t understand, Paul as well as Jen, if you also. PAUL: Oh. We ' re worried.
– JEN: Oh, yeah. PAUL: Do not hesitate to disclose.
LUCIA: So, in season one.
without informing her, we originally had.
Deborah say to Ava, “” Allow me show you how to swim,”” when she gets home, rather than.
the fish-chopping scene. As well as the idea was gon na be that, she was gon na.
teach Ava to drift, but she was still.
Angry at her that for one second,.
she pressed her under water.

( LAUGHING) And she was sort of, like,.
choking water, and also she assists her back up. There'' s just,. and also'you ' “re like, “Did she just try to kill. her as well as choose not to? Did she try to scare her?”” Like, what was that? And I wear'' t bear in mind specifically'.
why we didn ' t move on. with that.
I think because nobody idea. it was an excellent suggestion, yet … PAUL: No, I assume it was. honestly as a result of obtaining that area at that.
season. JEN: I believe it was difficult to.
return to your home where the pool was.Yeah.

PAUL: I believe there were.
manufacturing restrictions, yeah. LUCIA: But I will say, I believe.
that the fish-chopping scene actually functioned way better,.
since it bookended the fishing scene.
at the start of– I assume that'' s the episode. that has the– PAUL: Yes.( OVERLAPPED SPEAKING) LUCIA: Yet we ' ve been.
attempting to have Deborah educate Ava. just how to float for a lengthy time.
JEN: It is type of amusing,.
Because that ' s regular. LUCIA: I ' ve seen you. DEBORAH : We can ' t also.
AVA:( SIGHS )Yeah. I can'' t do this. You know what?
to float.
JEN: Would certainly you such as to.
speak about the pool and just how cozy it was? PAUL: We did, obviously,.
shoot in a swimming pool. And it'' s extremely hard to act, and also it ' s extremely hard to.
As well as it was, you'understand,.
as well as by warm, I mean 95 degrees.”” We did warmth the swimming pool, not just.
with the pool heating unit, but likewise added heaters.So much to make sure that … I think it did fog up. video cameras for a minute?- JEN: It did. Yeah. -LUCIA: It did, yeah.
PAUL: It was steamy therein, yet they had a beautiful time. DEBORAH: Begin. AVA: No … (GRIPE )DEBORAH: What
do you think ' s. gon na happen? Come'on.- AVA: I put on ' t like it.- DEBORAH: Oh,'for Pete ' s purpose.- I ' ll hold you. -AVA: Okay … DEBORAH: ' Kay? I ' m gon na.
hold you up.
AVA: Wait … DEBORAH: I'' m just gon na. assistance you. Lean back.( SPRINKLING) Lean back, lift your breast. AVA: Okay, what regarding this? “” My manager took.
over 3 million dollars.
If I desired a guy to take.
that much cash from me,
I would certainly have married him.”” DEBORAH: (LAUGHS) Yeah, but … No, I'' ve obtained so much marriage
. things right prior to this.
Exactly how '' round … Exactly how about. something regarding … Just how much that would certainly be … today with inflation. AVA: Well, just how a lot.
would certainly it be?
DEBORAH: I have no concept. AVA: My organization supervisor swiped.
over 3 million dollars.
You recognize how much that is.
I had a business supervisor. DEBORAH

s good.
MARGARET: Well, it ' s simply,.
That entire scene is very. Because she ' s got such a hard,.
– PAUL: They ' re both.
really tough. You recognize? And also they both have.
these tough coverings, therefore that was a moment where.
you had to truly open up, -as well as just kick back.
– LUCIA: As well as trust fund. MARGARET: Depend on! Depend on. That'' s what'it is. It ' s trust. Yeah, I indicate,. I ' m so curious about … What is that experience of … sort of trying to develop Deborah as kind of.
I see Ava kind of mothering Deborah. In that Ava is kind of like. -PAUL: Extremely much.
– MARGARET: It'' s normally that– that'' s kind of the'taste,. of Ava ' s sort of needed to do that, kind of with her mom.
That I like. I like Jane. so … such a terrific starlet. PAUL: Therefore wonderful as Nina. She makes us laugh a lot. MARGARET: She'' s so humorous. But she'' s so wonderful, as well as that ' s such.
a funny point of, like, Ava having to … finally be able to be a kid. -PAUL: Yeah.
– LUCIA: Yeah … JEN: Yeah, I believe in regards to.
the mother-daughter relationship in between Deborah and also Ava.
is like …

The objective, constantly, for us with.
this relationship between them was to reveal a connection.
As well as so, we'' re commonly, when.
we see a lot, or commonly they'' re in the context.
of being a partner to a guy. However there hasn'' t been a
whole lot. of proving of joint connection between.
2 artists, who occur to be females. As well as so I believe what you'' re. choosing up on resembles, in a healthy and balanced, innovative.
collaboration, you'' re'sort of … there ' s minutes where you ' re taking treatment of. each other. It goes both methods.
That ' s kind of very. Deborah ' s taking treatment of Ava, as well as then there ' s moments when. I really feel like there '
s a couple pair,.
And that ' s exactly how she, you know,.
she shows her to swim, informs her to take.'these vitamins.
She ' s always telling her. she has to function more difficult.
And I assume a lot'of that.
feels like she ' s telling her how.
she'' s gon na need to live. if she ' s not there “, you understand, and
teaching her–.” it ' s a little “instruct a guy. to fish.” PAUL: That ' s right, you know
,. I indicate,” the really act of,” “you can drift and you can. do it by yourself,” as well as, “you got this,” is a big.
I assume what ' s also great is simply when Ava recognizes.
she can float, “there is that attractive”. realization of like', “Oh, I am float–.
This is occurring,” which ' s an actually–.
it ' s a gorgeous minute.
I believe it actually shows. that sort of humanity which discovery,.
it ' s truly great.
PAUL: And it took Deborah “. pushing her out of the nest.” a bit, and also saying, “Enter the pool.
You can do this.” You recognize, and also she'doesn ' t. like it and she doesn ' t wish to, as well as she ' s resistant,.

When she just leans back and also she just takes.
a deep breath, she can do it.And it ' s something that Ava does. for Deborah at all times, as well as she claims
, you recognize,. “Maybe you ought to just inform this lady that.
you ' re sorry about this indiscretion.
in your past, and about how, you know,. you did something.” really competitive.
“Just speak to her about it.” And also Deborah says,. “Of program not.
I ' m simply gon na purchase her joy.
It is that same point of,.
MARGARET: Yeah. And also it'' s great.
experience for her. She simply desired to live.
her life as well as she didn'' t wish to. have to compromise all things. that Deborah was sacrificing, -as well as just seeing that.
– PAUL: Precisely, it was wilful, her option– it was choiceful.
It was that she couldn'' t hack it. Or perhaps she could ' ve,. She chose not to be, as well as I think that was one.
of the things we wished to check out.
in this episode, is that thing that we chatted.
about a little while ago, which is when you come across.
somebody who didn'' t continue, there is constantly that feeling.
of …

You know, do they wish for it? Do you really feel guilt.
Do you have survivor'' s sense of guilt. Do you have jealousy.
due to the fact that they'' re in fact living a healthier, balanced life? There is simply that, like,.
strange, unmentioned exchange I feel that happens between.
comedians, definitely, yet most likely likewise individuals.
in any kind of imaginative area when they see people.
that they developed that were skilled, that picked.
not to do it, or stopped doing it,.
or couldn'' t do it, or … don ' t do it anymore. for whatever factor. DEBORAH: When they published.
the progressing comics.
at the showcase …
I erased your name. You had actually made it.
DEBORAH: No, I– I know,.
there'' s no justification, I ' m sorry. You truly can ' ve made it. SUSAN: (LAUGHING)
Deborah, hold on.
You believe I give up comedy.
since I didn'' t
make it to the next round.
of an university showcase?
DEBORAH: Well, it was a nationwide.
university display.
SUSAN: No! That was when.
your daughter struck her head
as well as obtained a trauma. DEBORAH: What? SUSAN: Yeah! She was like ten, as well as she snuck a container of vodka. from bench, she hit her head on a table.
in the environment-friendly area,
she got a trauma. Do you not remember this? DEBORAH: I remember I closed.
with the one-legged supporter.
joke and it eliminated.
DJ trauma? No. Wait, wait, why would you retire.
after that?
SUSAN: Well, I just located out.
that I was expecting, and, …
then that happened, and also, uh … I saw the sacrifices.
you were making
to have your little girl.
when driving.
PAUL: Especially for individuals.
like Jen, Lucia and also myself, we would certainly view comics,.
primarily female comedians, on, like, Comedy Central'' s. Premium Blend or something, and also a great deal of those comedians.
were women…-MARGARET: Mm-hmm.

– PAUL: … and I would state much less than fifty percent as several finished up.
having their very own comedy, or having their very own talk program,.
or having their very own– And it'' s kinda like, why did
. a lot of individuals get their own comedy.
with their name? You understand what I suggest? Why aren'' t there more. of the females doing that? Also if they'' re proceeding.
and also they are effective and they are functioning a ton,.
why is it that many males take pleasure in the praise that they do when a lot of women.
MARGARET: I indicate, it ' s hard,. I assume it ' s sexism. JEN: Yeah, well I was'just.
gon na say, I believe that ' s additionally part of. what we wished to check out.
in'this episode is that for Deborah and also Susan,.
it ' s a question that their male equivalents. didn ' t really need to.
consider as much because they were seeing.
these sacrifices as well as particularly just the moment. that they were turning up, this concept of, like,. being a comic and additionally having kids,.
as well as also balancing every one of that, it was just an inquiry.
men didn'' t have to ask themselves as much, to ensure that,.
certainly, enters play.
as well.What Paul is saying. is this thing that naturally since of.
the means that the system.
is set up, those are questions and also questions.
that get in a women comic'' s mind in such a way that it didn'' t for guys.
– MARGARET: Mm-hmm
. Deborah and Ava partnership, yet there are a couple.
discussions about collaborate with the various other personalities. I suggest, Ava as well as Marcus have a conversation.
where they understand they in fact have a lot.
in typical in the idea that they place.
Much of themselves into work in a way that is damaging.
to their individual lives, which is, you understand, for Marcus.
JIMMY: Okay, wonderful! MARGARET: As well as they ' re both. ' Cause I believe they ' re realizing.
I think it ' s a comparable thing as what ' s occurring with Ava. AVA: I presume we ' re both.
all about our jobs. At the very least you ' re a CEO.
and, like, very successful.
– MARCUS: I guess.
-AVA: Uh, yeah,
plus you have several
residences as well as you ' re in a relationship. with a 9.5. MARCUS: Really, Wilson and I.
-A while ago.
– AVA: Oh. That sucks.I ' m truly sorry. MARCUS: Primarily since.
I'' m married to my job,.
And also when I did attempt to have fun,.
I almost killed a pet dog.
MARGARET: It'' s intriguing,.
it'' s like when you kind of see they ' re actually the shadow.
sides of each other. PAUL: That'' s right,. that ' s precisely right, they are the shadow sides. of each other.
And in this episode,.
there is a lot of coming together. of these personalities, you
know, who are really far apart. initially of the season. -MARGARET: Mm-hmm.
– PAUL: Jimmy as well as Kayla,.
clearly, Marcus and Ava,.
and even Ava as well as Deborah truly collaborated at the end.
of this episode, although there is.
this ongoing lawsuit and they'' ve had this crack.
as well as this dishonesty happen, this is an episode where they.
actually have leaned on each various other even more than they ever before have. For all of the characters.MARGARET: The crack. is

mosting likely to make it more powerful in like it ' s– what is it',.
Kintsugi, you understand, when Japanese pottery.
is broken as well as they bind it with each other.
with molten gold, as well as it becomes its very own kind.
of stunning art, to ensure that,.
if it were never ever damaged, it wouldn'' t be as lovely.
– PAUL: Precisely right.
– MARGARET: I assume that ' s kinda. what ' s taking place there.
– PAUL: Exactly right–.
– LUCIA: That is. a beautiful allegory.- MARGARET: Yeah!-'PAUL: And it ' s true, what doesn ' t eliminate you. makes you stronger, and also makes you a lot more stunning. You recognize, every one of things.
that these characters.
have experienced, hopefully, their relationships.
have grown and also they'' ve enriched each other, and so, you recognize, they come out.
the other end cracked yet better. MARGARET: I simply really hope that.
Weed comes back. (CHUCKLES) PAUL: I know, so do we. You understand? ♪ (UPBEAT SONGS PLAYS) ♪ MARGARET: Currently'' s the component. of the program where I', as the guest host,. I ' m gon na pitch you a tale for a future episode of Hacks. In the '' 90s, Playboy
the women comics concern. -Do you understand about this?
– ALL: No. MARGARET: This is really excellent. This is truly, really great.I think it was

with Rhonda Shear.
as well as Felicia Michaels, and also rather a great deal of other.
huge headliner female comics, as well as it was so scandalous. I think that that should,.
for an upcoming episode, my pitch.
for the upcoming episode is that this resurfaces. -LUCIA: Oh!
– PAUL: Ooh, that'' s really great. MARGARET: Which me and–.
( GIGGLES) I have to manage it,.
'' reason I ' m in it, I constantly wanted to be in it.

MARGARET: It ' s kind of Mickey, it ' s kind of really Mickey Mouse. She'' s so fantastic, and also that ' s such.
Deborah ' s taking treatment of Ava, as well as then there ' s minutes when. I assume it ' s a similar thing as what ' s happening with Ava.-'PAUL: As well as it ' s true, what doesn ' t kill you.And also, uh … (ALL LAUGHING) MARGARET: Deborah has to
take care of it too, that we'' re both in it,
– LUCIA: That'' s so amusing. PAUL: Due To The Fact That Deborah would certainly have done it in your mind, you'' re like, “Yes, Deborah would certainly have done it.”” MARGARET: Naturally she would have done it because this would'' ve– I mean, it would certainly have been– yeah, she would have most definitely done it, and also– but simply totally neglected, and also– or was just so humiliated that then it did– Because then, things like that just kinda disappeared because it was just theoretically, -so you just didn'' t see it once again.- PAUL: Right, right.It ' s

so funny that that'' s real because it ' s analogue and also it'' s on paper, it ' s not something that
always sticks around, and also, I can so see Deborah claiming, “” Oh my God, there'' s a lot of points I ' ve ignored.
: “There ' s so many. big points that remain in my past.
You recognize? MARGARET: Yeah.
an actually funny one. I keep in mind how scandalous it was.
for all the male comics, since it resembled every one of their.
female counterparts are, like, nude in a magazine,.
in Playboy, as well as it was actually Playboy,
which was really stunning. PAUL: That'' s wild. That ' s an excellent storyline. MARGARET: Yes. That'' s. my pitch for the future. -PAUL: I really like that.
– MARGARET: Yeah. To make sure that'' s it for currently. In our following episode, Jen, Paul and Lucia will talk about.
making the 6th episode of this season of Hacks
with Rosie O'' Donnell! Goodbye, thanks a lot. We'' ll see you when I reach movie again.
on the show! (CHUCKLES) -JEN: Can'' t wait.
to see you after that.- PAUL: We can not wait.MARGARET: I can '

t wait!- PAUL: Enter wardrobe now.- MARGARET: Yes! NARRATOR: This is the Hacks
official podcast with Lucia Aniello,.
Paul W. Downs, and also Jen Statsky. This podcast is a production.
of HBO Max and Pineapple Street Studios. Our executive manufacturers.
are Bari Finkel, Gabrielle Lewis,.
Jenna Weiss Berman as well as Max Linsky. Our manufacturers are Beandrea July,.
Melissa Massacre, and also Ari Saperstein. Our managing manufacturer.
is Erin Kelly, and also Maria Robins-Somerville.
is our associate producer. Darby Maloney is our editor. The program is mixed.
by Twi McCallum, with engineering.
from Davy Sumner. Manufacturing music is courtesy.
of HBO. You can enjoy episodes of Hacks
on HBO Max. Till following time. ♪ (SONGS CONCLUDES) ♪.

– LUCIA: That'' s so amusing. PAUL
: “There ' s so manySeveral PAUL: That'' s wild. That ' s a terrific story. That'' s it for currently.

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